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by Brad Henderson
December 15th, 2017, 8:56 pm
Forum: General
Topic: The Royal Road, all it's cracked up to be?
Replies: 54
Views: 4295

Re: The Royal Road, all it's cracked up to be?

poker players picnic is belchous aces and was first published in the dragon magazine.

i have a routine (two actually) for this in a set of notes. I use the reputation to make it seem more impossible, using a false dealing theme.
by Brad Henderson
December 15th, 2017, 2:27 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Brad Jeffers wrote:
jkeyes1000 wrote: Thus I logically infer the finger.
I think you may logically infer the finger from all of Brad's posts in this thread.


;)
by Brad Henderson
December 15th, 2017, 1:58 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

chetday wrote:My personal sense of morality forces me to pose the following question to perhaps generate new substance and insights to this most remarkable philosophical discussion:

Is Brad lying because he fails to capitalize the first word of his sentences?


dammit, i knew i had a 'tell'.
by Brad Henderson
December 14th, 2017, 11:35 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

But I willI say that your idea that lying is a skill is nonsense. What talent does it require to hold a book in your hand (with your finger stuck in at the force page), flip the pages and utter the number YOU CHOSE? keyes, if you are holding a break at the force page then using the hoy ruse is sens...
by Brad Henderson
December 14th, 2017, 7:30 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

But I willI say that your idea that lying is a skill is nonsense. What talent does it require to hold a book in your hand (with your finger stuck in at the force page), flip the pages and utter the number YOU CHOSE? keyes, if you are holding a break at the force page then using the hoy ruse is sens...
by Brad Henderson
December 14th, 2017, 12:23 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

He is not against misrepresentation. He is against direct, downright blatant lies. There is a difference you know. I am not 100 percent convinced by his argument but fair is fair. There is a subtle difference here. I don't see how you can do magic without misrepresentation but you CAN do it without...
by Brad Henderson
December 14th, 2017, 12:07 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

She is directed to think of the longest word. yes. because the last thing an experienced performer wants is for the revelation to be the word 'the' Who but a fool would fail to perceive that as a force? And it is NOT likely to be a true statement. Possible, but not likely. so you are calling everyo...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 10:19 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Below is a video that demonstrates the kind of lies i detest. Note that the performer (Osterlind) not only miscalls the page, but has the gall to TELL the volunteer which word she is thinking of! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYvmobtjsLw&sns=em Mr. Keyes, Would you be so kind as to identify a...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 10:17 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

keyes lies when he says he answers all the questions. he skips over all the inconvenient ones but please tell me how they know the page call is a lie? sure we all lie. how will they detect this one is a lie? the didn't notice it in the video. i've never seen someone call it out in any performance i...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 10:14 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

But Brad's argument is that if you underplay the lie, no one will notice. Or everyone will be so intent on believing in The Impossible that they will ignore it. Surely if either of those premises are solid then why should anyone suspect? nope. it's not about underplaying. the lie can be blatant. an...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 9:55 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

keyes lies when he says he answers all the questions. he skips over all the inconvenient ones but please tell me how they know the page call is a lie? sure we all lie. how will they detect this one is a lie? the didn't notice it in the video. i've never seen someone call it out in any performance i'...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 5:38 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Only a desperately flailing debater would skew the facts as you do, Brad. what fact have i skewed? that people don't get offended when a magician does what they go to the magician to do, to experience the impossible? or when i pointed out that michael weber knows more about magic than you do? do yo...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 3:10 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Math tricks are much more liable to be uncovered than a miscall done intelligently as Osterlind does. And when math tricks are uncovered, in my experience, audiences can feel like you're insulting their intelligence. worse still, math isn't a a logical method to make a choice of a word or page. It'...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 3:08 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Math tricks are much more liable to be uncovered than a miscall done intelligently as Osterlind does. And when math tricks are uncovered, in my experience, audiences can feel like you're insulting their intelligence. While this effect does rely on what you would call a "math trick", it is...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 11:43 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

so it's a math trick. As opposed to a lie trick, yes. really, how does the audience know i have lied? in your example you put the math in front of them. your trick is about math. they know you are doing math. the hoy as traditionally done is about mind reading. in yours the math is the critical obs...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 11:40 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

My argument is not a moral one. I am not suggesting that certain forms of deception are more acceptable to the audience than another ... Please, we can all read, Mr. Keyes; you've continually framed your posts in moral terms, and continually claimed that certain forms of deception are more acceptab...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 11:31 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

so it's a math trick.
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 9:41 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Below is a video that demonstrates the kind of lies i detest. Note that the performer (Osterlind) not only miscalls the page, but has the gall to TELL the volunteer which word she is thinking of! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYvmobtjsLw&sns=em which one of those people in the audience called...
by Brad Henderson
December 13th, 2017, 9:34 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

First point would be that it's going to be rather difficult to get the majority of readers on your side, when a few posts back you condescendingly suggested that "most magicians" are puzzlers, and that's what's rotten in the state of Denmark. this has nothing to do with the any claim but ...
by Brad Henderson
December 12th, 2017, 4:48 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Richard Kaufman wrote:Don't you guys get tired of arguing the same points over and over again?


i look forward to the day keyes actually makes a point.
by Brad Henderson
December 12th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

"How does the audience know they have been 'faked out' unless the performer is incompetent and gets caught ?" Brad, I am going to answer your question in a slightly different way this time. I will concede that more often than not, audiences will GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT that you ...
by Brad Henderson
December 12th, 2017, 2:25 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

I don't know much about Hoy's Book Test but I gather it is something to do with miscalling the page number of a book. I don't really see much of a problem with that somehow. I do concede that I don't know that much about the trick to make a judgement on it though. All I can say after attempting to ...
by Brad Henderson
December 12th, 2017, 2:23 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

i did. but i didn't want to miss an opportunity to make the point. I suppose it would be awfully uncivil of me to say that your "point" about pleasing your audience with Hoy's Book Test is no more valid or conclusive than any of my "groundless" observations. Just want to make su...
by Brad Henderson
December 12th, 2017, 8:52 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

i did.

but i didn't want to miss an opportunity
to make the point.
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 11:13 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

The accent was an important part of Slydini's presentation, I would suggest. What might come across as confrontational (and did so to some anyway, it seems) was defused by the spectator making allowance for the performer's imperfect command of the language. "You watch , but you no see !" ...
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 11:09 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

this sunday i approached a literate table of folks at the restaurant in which i perform. Each of the two children were reading books. Given our recent discussion i performed the Hoy book test. They were convinced i could read minds. and no one, at no time, ever even mentioned the page number as imp...
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 2:32 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

this sunday i approached a literate table of folks at the restaurant in which i perform. Each of the two children were reading books. Given our recent discussion i performed the Hoy book test. They were convinced i could read minds. and no one, at no time, ever even mentioned the page number as impo...
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 2:27 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

the books are clear and they do teach that one must adapt to their own personal styles. But his method of teaching requires the students to copy exactly. I spent a great deal of time with cellini a few years back and in fact he was one of those who educated me on that point though others have said t...
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 12:36 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

Maybe this "lie" dialog is about keeping the audience side of silent script (what they think is happening) internal rather than narrated? ...Slydini didn't advocate that people should emulate him... Maybe after they learned to do exactly as shown in the lesson. exactly. it was my understa...
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 12:32 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

It may be that the most important and effective "lies" of a magician are the ones he tells to himself. We must convince ourselves that the empty hand is holding the coin, come as close as possible to believing it with the utmost conviction, and convey that belief and conviction to the spe...
by Brad Henderson
December 11th, 2017, 12:17 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

"And the only way they will be suspicious of a lie is if you don't know how to lie convincingly". This from a man who has explicitly stated that audiences know that magicians lie! You don't think COMMON KNOWLEDGE leads to suspicion? no. when you go to a haunted house are you 'suspicious' ...
by Brad Henderson
December 10th, 2017, 8:10 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

mark. slydini has influence us all, but his approach to magic is inherently challenging and the fact that so few people can pull that off is proof enough that he is a bad example to emulate. the best students of slydini look and act nothing like him. Those who never grew past the stage of mimicry ca...
by Brad Henderson
December 10th, 2017, 8:04 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

keyes. you might want to watch the video again. the lie i refer to is simple and clear. it is exactly the lie you condemn. and simply finding one magician who doesn't lie in one trick proves nothing. magicians have lied for centuries and NO ONE CARES. it's not that they don't suspect the magician is...
by Brad Henderson
December 10th, 2017, 3:04 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

i can choose to not li, but that doesn't assure the audience i am not lying. a lie well told is invisible. how can the audience ever be assured you aren't using invisible things unless you announce it to them - and why would they believe you if you did? the problem is that you don't know how to lie ...
by Brad Henderson
December 10th, 2017, 11:05 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

I hsve established a method for the audience to know you are NOT LYING. I calI it "NOT LYING". All you have to do is avoid making direct statements that are untrue. and how will they know those direct statements are true or not true unless you are incompetent? how can you not see this? Yo...
by Brad Henderson
December 10th, 2017, 1:59 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

It is quite clear that you don't appreciate the analytical approach to this subject Brad. Your understanding of the psychology of the audience is limited to the assumption that they just want to have a good time and don't really mind being lied to if it provides them a momentary diversion. but you'...
by Brad Henderson
December 9th, 2017, 6:10 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

You repeatedly suggest there is only one way for an audience to know you are lying. An incompetent performance. I have responded every time by saying they don't need to KNOW. That the mere suspicion is sufficient to dull the effect. as erdnase said re: palming, the audience 'must not suspect, let a...
by Brad Henderson
December 9th, 2017, 3:43 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

again, how can it hurt the repute of magic if they don't know you are lying. you can only be known to be lying if you get caught, and getting caught is what damages the repute - not the particular method employed at that time and i can prove it people have been catching magicians for centuries and m...
by Brad Henderson
December 9th, 2017, 2:40 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

we expect magicians to exploit sleights judiciously, and misdirection judicially, and gaffs judiciously - why is lying as a technique to be treated differently? and why do you assume lies mask weaknesses? can they not also be used to reinforce strengths or even be employed as part of the creation of...
by Brad Henderson
December 9th, 2017, 12:20 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 524
Views: 13439

Re: Ennobling Magic

You say that the risk of getting caught in a verbal lie is "no greater" than tipping your hand. But my point is that it is an unnecessary risk. I think my WHY has a more solid foundation than your WHY NOT. and palming a card is unnecessary if you can use a duplicate. but sometimes using a...

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